I find it kinda funny personally that someone first feels bad at "bashing" religion which is clearly faulty and has no chance of winning any arguments - so therefore that person is on some high chair to make fun of whatever he pleases - only to have them end the argument.
Then see it picked up again into a full blown discussion not a post later.
God is "above" our judgment, logic, emotions, everything. If everything happens for a reason, God's got a pretty good reason that He may want you to find out in a special way in the future (in which case you'll look back and be like "ohh, how was I so stupid?" in hindsight) - or you may never know the reason for something happening at all, but that doesn't mean the reason isn't there.
I saw someone on TV talk about someone who died. The person was crying, saying that "He didn't deserve to get shot or die." Who is this person to say who deserves what? It's not anyone's place to deal out judgment other than Gods', and I believe that's the sole mistake you my friend, wal, concerning these "bashings" or discussions.
You may choose to point the finger back at me. Point out errors in my logic, in my reasons, or maybe be a grammar nazi and say I'm incapable of arguing and therefore a waste of your time since I can't put simple words together correctly. Or maybe you'll just resort to simply making fun of this post.
My point here is no one is ever in the "absolute" right to point out someone else's deficiency. It's called constructive criticism. I may tell my sister to take out the trash, that she keeps forgetting. She may point the finger back at me and tell me that I forget to get the mail. With this attitude, nothing gets done. Instead of looking at who is saying it, instead maybe look at what they're saying. Take that into account, then look at who is saying it. If you look at yourself first, being completely honest with yourself, then you might say "maybe yeah, I should remember to take out the trash and put more effort in." If however, someone's argument is completely flawed with what they're saying, with something like "Islam is wrong! Muslims deserve to die!" Still look at what they're saying. If you clearly can't disprove them with logic, then look at the who. Who being, someone who is blinded because a Muslim killed their brother or sister. Someone who's opinion is biased and unyielding even in the face of God Himself.
That is why I hate extremists. Extremists generally on this board, no thanks to me no doubt, are generally associated with Muslims. Let me be clear in saying that extremism isn't bound to just religious factions - it goes hand in hand with Atheism too, if not especially with Atheism, more than other religions. Usually because some poor kid was traumatized with Church as a child. They see all the negativity - the wars waged by the voice of power in the past, but they see as the voice of religion. How nothing good has come from it - how they were deprived in childhood because they were forced to attend a joke of a Church. They were unwillingly forced into a life where they unconsciously made a blood pact never to accept any religion, and having already made up their minds, no matter what I say or do, be it experiences, logic, scientific proof of fact or what have you, the mind is already made up, so it makes no difference.
That being said, when I say God is "above" us, I quite literally mean that if He exists, what hope do you and I have as simple stupid little humans to try and comprehend His actions? He created us. He knew what He was doing -He's not an idiot. You see stupid mistakes and creation flaws, and laugh and point fingers (who the fuck? termites on a wood boat? what an idiot) when the truth is, God is God, and there's a reason. Sure, there are more efficient ways of wiping clean an entire planet than having it rain for some 40 days - why take the time? You try to poke at miracles in the Bible, saying their scientifically impossible, or wood can't retain it's shape when it's made into a boat that needed to be as big as the Ark, or bread can't feed 5,000 people. You fail to realize that if these things happened, and if God exists, these Are MIRACLES. God, if He exists, is obviously above our petty laws of science and physics - which He created, mind you - so who's the idiot now? You'd think the argument of religion vs. science would've been dropped centuries ago on account of them simply not being able to be compared, much like an apple and an orangutan. You can have pissing contests all day about the two and still get no where, because God created science, and science can't explain God.
I personally used to be one of these people; I'd always ask "why?" instead of just growing a pair of balls and acting. Asking why isn't going to get you an answer all the time. But you aren't going to find the answer by sitting still, waiting for it to come to you. Believe me, I have questions of my own about this God. Why in the hell would he create a bunch of beings this retarded? Why would he even give the option of having evil exist, if He "loves us so much"? Why doesn't he give people the proof they need to believe in Him? Why let us suffer?
That's all I can come up with on the top of my head atm, but I can guarentee there's way more conflict in me personally under the surface. Usually I find out later down the road - that I was supposed to figure something out first. I can't get a job because I'm not supposed to have one - I was supposed to end up volunteering to hang out with high school kids at camps, host events for them and teach middle school kids at the beach, and thereby have the experience and be qualified to become the awesome snowboarding instructor that I am now.
My point being, there's always something. If I'm smart enough to give God a chance, He usually shows me up pretty bad.
I know I'm all over the place with this post, and concerning wal, I definitely took a psychoanalysis direction off of a whim. I'm just tired of people bickering and getting all worked up over the post retarded of things, and people getting butthurt over not being able to prove their religion to some stubborn Buddhist or something. In saying that everyone else is wrong, I'm definitely not right, and probably am not right even about this. But if people are smart enough, I'm hoping they'll take into account what I'm saying and at least take it to heart a little bit so we can stop the pathetic "bashing" when really all it is is the hijacking of a topic, with a topic someone clearly has no desire to jer
I'm sorry for my part in it, because I'm not denying I probably had a lot to do with it in this particular thread. But what's said is said. I know I'm going crazy, really, so I hope at least some of what I said was coherent to some of you out there proficient in reading the 'venting' dialect of American English.
I'd usually regret half the things I say in cases like this, but thank God it's just the internet.
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Last edited by Phobos on Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.