Doom3world

was a little bit more than just a simple vBulletin intrusion.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/

Here's the message from Gabe:

One of those hacker groups finally going after Valve for the same reasons as Sony maybe?

http://www.cad-comic.com/sillies/20111109

I honestly don't understand why people even do such things
Probably some kid that didn't get the hats he wanted in Team Fortress 2

maybe just to show valve that they need better security?

If any place bans people for hacking that means they need "better" security to begin with! A secure place doesn't get hacked (and no place is 100% secure so...)

If this is what it takes to get Valve to let people resell their Steam games and lower the DRM stranglehold on the PC game industry, you won't see me protesting to much.

Meanwhile in Steam HQ: 'Our forum got hacked! We better start allowing people to resell their games before it's too late!'

Read it again: the forums wasn't the hack, the database the contains user name/passwords, contact info, purchase info, CC info & forum info got hacked.

Yes but that's no problem, right? Cause they stored everything neatly in there using a simple hash algorithm, meaning hackers would still need to brute-force hack the DB, which might take months or years...... Right?..... RIGHT??

I'd highly assume Valve has much tighter security then the US, Russian or Chinese govt and that they all need two access keys (like launch keys) just to access anything computer related after the "Gaben" diabolical. I mean, they wouldn't let it happen a SECOND time, would they?

Yeah, that wasn't my point...I'm trying to say that it's silly to believe that hacking Steam/Valve will convince Valve that they should allow reselling of games...even sillier to believe that they'll remove their DRM system due to this.

No different then sitting out in the freezing cold while having a loan out for college to protest the bank that gave you the loan makes sense.

But, for some reason, it works! (I'd say it works because when someone was a kid they kept whining until their mom gave them that lollie pop in the store and now they have the same feeling for the people sitting outside)

We don't know who hacked or why. If it's one of those groups who claim they're trying to "help" people by stealing their info them that could be a reason because Valve does what the other companies they've gone after do.

I´m agreeing with The Happy Friar here, I think Steam is becoming more and more reduntant, who uses a download manager to download anything in 2011? There is a reason why Steam is not on mobiles, and it´s not because they´re still working on it. it´s because it´s purposeless there. Likewise on Mac, if you´re a mac user, you see how stupid and pointless steam is. There´s around 40 total games that run on mac if you launch steam and see, including the "steam play" games. Next year when microsoft launches the windows store there won´t be any need to have steam running to get, launch and update games. And this windows store won´t be anything like GfWL.

I'm pretty sure if you look at Steam's statistics you'll see that a lot of people use Steam, including myself and that's mainly because Steam provides a way better service than anything else out there right now (GFWL is plain terrible). I don't see why Steam should be on mobile phones either... I'm pretty sure it should be clear that Valve's focus is the PC market and not the mobile market.

I'd say Steam provides an easier access to games, not better. It got big because it was required for HL2 and Valve knew people would buy HL2. MS is most likely kicking themselves and thinking they should of done this service first.

The reality is the exact opposite of course. Steam (and similar services) are becoming more and more essential.

-Retail sales are going down for various reasons-> some kind of electronic distribution is needed
-The distribution size of games and patches are increasing -> some kind of managed download is needed
-Number of 'newbie'-users are increasing -> A simple way of installing games and updates is needed.

All these are covered by Steam, and since most of us have dozens (or more) of games in our Steam libraries we're locked in and we'll continue using Steam -> buy more Steam games and get even more dependent on it.



The reason Steam is not on mobile-phones is that each mobile platform is proprietary and won't allow Steam entry. Same with the consoles. It's certainly not 'purposeless' there because each mobile-platform have implemented their own 'game download service' with great success. I have no idea if Valve would be interested in the entering the mobile market if they had the chance, but there is clearly a market for such services there.



I assume that you mean 'if you're a Steam user, you see how stupid and pointless Macs are'. It's not Steams fault that there are few games released for Macs.



Why do you think Microsofts effort in this area will be less 'redundant' than Steam?

It's true that Steam will see increased competition in the time ahead (Windows store, Origin, Google?) but new new services will probably work in the same way as Steam so if you dislike Steam you'll probably dislike the competition also.

So far the ones I've tried have all been terrible compared to Steam (GFWL, EA Store, Origin) but I assume that they'll get it right eventually, but by then my Steam library will have grown quite a lot. I already have 120 games there, and unless there's some way of 'moving' them over to a new service Steam will be my primary games service in the foreseeable future.

Easier access to games is pretty much the whole idea behind Steam and of course 'easier' is also better.

Even so, Steam does include some functionality that adds value (->better) beyond ease of distribution:
-Friend-lists and groups
-Instant messaging
-Voice chat
-Screenshot function

If you include SteamWorks the list grows to include achievements (I don't care about those but some do) and 'cloud save games' (Really useful since I have multiple PCs), and of course VAC (which I know is a controversial function).

Easier and better are two different definitions. An iPad could be said to be easier then a windows PC but it does squat compared to a Windows PC. Likewise, Steam is easier then going to the store but it's not better in terms of getting games to the public. If it was better there would be no more retail sales, by now.

Retail sales aren't going down easier. Console retail sales are majority of the electronic game market, Steam a small part. 3+ million constant users when you give away a big chunk of your stuff is the equivalent of counting hits on a website vs sales. I'd say there's 100+million Steam accounts but very very VERY few use it on a regular basis. In my experience, Steam breaks more then it fixes and is slower then old methods.

Certainly - I didn't suggest that easier and better meant the same ting. I'm saying that something that is easier is also better.



This doesn't make sense...the iPad vs PC comparison does not in any way carry over to Steam vs retail. There is no advantage of going to the store; you don't get a more advanced game with more functions if you buy the retail version. Steam is easier than going to a store and has other advantages also.



Yes, console games is keeping the retail stores alive and thereby also the 'pc games retail business'. This is because the console makers (Sony, MS, Nintendo) needs to give some business to the shops since they need them for selling their consoles. Selling consoles is a low margin business so the shops also need a high margin business to keep going. So for consoles the game shops is based on necessity...not on what is best, easiest or most cost effective.

Book stores and music stores are going away due to electronic distribution of books and music. Same will happen with software; certainly for PC software but console games might hold out a bit longer due to the above reason.




Skyrim had close to 250 000 concurrent players on Steam after release; that was just one game.

I don't know anything about your experiences but I've had no serious issues with Steam and I've been using it since HL2 was released. What are your arguments against Steam now? What kind of problems are you experiencing?

Cheap games automatically downloaded, installed, patched, no cd required, play on any machine...sounds like a good deal to me.

Retail PC games is not dead yet, but it is dying - electronic distribution will take the whole market eventually. I don't see any real argument for the opposite.

250 000 is nothing when compared to console playing numbers. Steam is the biggest DD in the PC gaming base, but that still pales when comparing it to retail console. Bethesda is selling the most on the 360 Skyrim, not the pc. Mobiles dont have to be closed like you mention. There´s others besides apple's smarthphones, which use open technologies, and steam is not needed there.

Broad sweeping statements without anything to back them up.
I've seen countless reports stating the opposite.
And no, the burdon of proof is not on me.